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this episode of the skeptic Zone podcast

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is dedicated to the memory of Dr Siobhan

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O'Sullivan

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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number 767 for the 18th of June

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2023 Richard Saunders coming to you from

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Sydney Australia and yes I'm very sad to

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report that my friend Dr Siobhan

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O'Sullivan whose Journey if we might use

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that word

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with her ovarian cancer has been

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documented here on the skeptic Zone over

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the past three years

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but of course sadly and Siobhan knew

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this would happen in the last few days

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she did pass away

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I'll be speaking more about Siobhan and

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what she meant to the skeptic Zone and

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her message coming up at the top of the

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show also on today's show Susan gerbeck

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returns with the story of The Tick Tock

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Quack and Wikipedia and how important

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her work in Wikipedia really is when it

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comes to putting out good information

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also we have the Australian Skeptics

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newsletter read by Adrian Hill in Canada

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and also on today's show the Trove

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segment looks at Water divining

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an oldie but a goodie and I just heard

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on the news report this morning that a

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major cold snap is heading for the

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southern parts of Australia so to all my

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friends in that neck of the woods

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Victoria and Melbourne and you know who

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you are

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I hope you can keep warm but now it's

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time for me to run downstairs

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have a nice strong cup of coffee and

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I'll return in a moment with a tribute

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to Dr Siobhan O'Sullivan

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thank you

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[Music]

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Dr Siobhan O Sullivan died only a few

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days ago at the very young age of 49

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from ovarian cancer

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I first met Dr Siobhan when Maynard and

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I attended the first Meetup of the

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Sydney podcasters group way back in 2015

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and we hit it off straight away

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Dr Siobhan had a PhD in political

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science but her main focus in life was

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Animal Welfare the respectable treatment

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of animals and she had a podcast knowing

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animals which dealt with that subject

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in the early days I interviewed Dr

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Siobhan about her podcasting and her

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interest in Animal Welfare but it wasn't

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until 2020 that things made a dramatic

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change in her life when she was

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diagnosed with ovarian cancer and

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Siobhan was under no illusions

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she knew she had a terminal condition

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the only question was for how long could

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her life be extended and she was also

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under no Illusions about medical care

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she knew full well that the best option

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for her was scientifically based

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evidence-based medicine she as you can

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imagine as many people in her situation

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she received lots of probably

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well-meaning advice from people

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suggesting that she should take all

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sorts of alternative therapies she

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rejected that and stuck with what she

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knew was her best hope Siobhan's

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optimism courage

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and always looking on the The Sunny Side

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of Life always really struck me

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Siobhan's sense of humor Shone through

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like never before when in 2021 she

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contacted me and suggested that we go on

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a ghost hunt in her local area

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to find somewhere where she could haunt

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after she died an offer too good to pass

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up Maynard and I accompanied Siobhan on

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the ghost tour and that made for an

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episode of the skeptic Zone podcast and

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I will link to that episode which is on

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YouTube as well the extended version in

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this week's show notes but here are some

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clips from that very Adventure

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foreign

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now as we're strolling along Siobhan uh

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skeptic Zone listeners will remember I

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interviewed you as a

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April or something like that may or

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something like that now you have been

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undergoing quite damn the adventure

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quite the adventure just for the sake of

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our listeners who may not have heard

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that episode uh you were a podcaster

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doing knowing animals and then you

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received the news that you were

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diagnosed with ovarian cancer yes that's

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right in start of August 2020 last year

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I was feeling quite bloated and a bit

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unwell I couldn't really put my finger

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on what it was I ended up in the

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emergency room at RPA which is one of

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the big public hospitals in Sydney and I

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was told that I had ovarian cancer stage

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three

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since then I have gone through the

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standard procedure the standard

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treatment which is six rounds of

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chemotherapy and surgery to remove the

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cancer

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but I've been very unlucky I

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um the cancer had already spread

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basically before they stopped the

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primary treatment

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and then I was moved on to another chemo

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but then after a couple of rounds I was

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chemo resistant meaning that

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chemotherapy couldn't work for me

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anymore

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so this is what happens unfortunately

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with ovarian cancer you know I was about

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20 years younger than the average age of

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diagnosis and within kind of eight

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months I was basically terminally ill

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and so I was given a couple of options

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one was to stop all treatment and I

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would die by Christmas this year so in a

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month

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or I could go back to a really old

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chemotherapy drug and I would lose all

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my hair I'd have to have it once a week

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I'd be constantly sick and I'd live a

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year

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or I could look around for a drug trial

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so with options like that I decided to

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look around for a drug trial so

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thankfully I am on that drug trial I

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have had one round and so far it has

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shown that the tumors aren't growing so

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I stay on it until the gym has start

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growing and then I'm out of treatment

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options so I'm hoping to live another

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year and a half but that's what I would

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like at least I've been told to look

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around for another drug trial but

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finding another ovarian cancer drug

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trial is not as easy as it sounds so

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that's my situation and one of the

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things I want to do is raise awareness

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about ovarian cancer because it is this

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really anomalous can so it is not like

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so many other cancers where it can be

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quite effectively treated and the large

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majority of people would be expected to

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live for quite a while if not have

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remission ovarian cancer has something

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like a 25 you know survival rate and it

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is a really it's a real killer and we

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need research is that reason because

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it's usually discovered late because it

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isn't found early

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it is a real scraper so you get almost

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no symptoms you get this feeling that

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you're a little bit bloated but quite

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frankly during covert who doesn't feel

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quite a bit bloated and of course

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um for many women most women they get it

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later in life and so you'll have skipped

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periods and things like that but that's

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also part of getting older so a lot of

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people just think my body's changing

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with age but in fact it may well be

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ovarian cancer exactly I have asked my

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friends and family to really think about

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avoiding the vocabulary of battle

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particularly when I die which is what is

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going to happen to me fairly soon and

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the reason why I don't appreciate that

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use of language is it suggests that I

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have agency and if only I fought harder

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yeah did this did that then it would go

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away and the extension of that is that I

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brought this on myself with the wrong

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type of thinking or whatever else and

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not only do I think that is incorrect

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but also it means that all the little

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children that get cancer they also had

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the wrong type of thoughts they didn't

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think in the right ways and I think that

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is so nasty and so unhelpful so I've

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asked my training doctors numerous times

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over what can I do to help myself and

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they say the same thing over and over

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again stay away from sick people because

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I'm immunocompromised and turn up for

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your appointments because the doctors

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are the ones that are going to keep me

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alive well look I have decided that one

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of the things I want to do before I die

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is raise awareness and funds for ovarian

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cancer treatment so it really is one of

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the most deadly cancers you can get

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definitely most deadly cancer for women

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and that has to change it's too late for

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me I'm going to die of ovarian cancer

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that's what's going to happen but there

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are young women out there who do not

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have to suffer that same fate we need

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research and research requires funds so

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I'm doing as much as I can whenever I'm

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getting an opportunity to do it so it's

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various things so for me to give myself

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meaning in this last period of my life

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is to try and make the world a better

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place for women with ovarian cancer

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[Music]

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so Dr Siobhan twice in the last week of

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her life and a couple of very short

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visits to her bedside at the palliative

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care ward in Concord Hospital on the

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first occasion I actually got a very

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nice laugh from Siobhan when I told her

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that I'd turned up to haunt her before

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she had a chance to haunt me on the

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second occasion with Maynard we uh

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reminded Siobhan that her work in her

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own podcast and maybe on the skeptic

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Zone would live on

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for a long time after she left

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despite being very ill and finding it

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very difficult to speak Siobhan let us

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know that it was very nice that we came

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to visit her and she reminded us that a

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couple of years ago she gifted us some

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popping filters for recording since she

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knew she wouldn't need them anymore one

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for me and one for Maynard which I use

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every time I record the skeptic Zone

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podcast and I'm using it

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right now the skeptic Zone podcast

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extends our deepest sympathies to the

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family and friends of Dr shivano

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Southern

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and the tributes are pouring in for her

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Siobhan Bonnie you will be sorely missed

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[Music]

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here's Susan gerbick

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[Music]

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hello skeptic Zone listeners this is

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Susan gerpick from the gorilla

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skepticism on Wikipedia project I have

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something really interesting to tell you

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today and I hope you guys enjoy this

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this is pure activism and pure just joy

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to be able to explain this scenario to

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you

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Richard Saunders on the skeptic Zone and

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other Australian Skeptics were writing a

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lot about a woman from Australia who is

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a naturopath her name is Barbara O'Neill

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and her last name is spelled o

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apostrophe n e i l l what I was hearing

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on the skeptic Zone sparked my interest

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now not everybody can have a Wikipedia

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page it takes a threshold of notability

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could be considered a bit extreme in

277
00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:12,360
some cases it's not just Fame it's not

278
00:13:17,569 --> 00:13:15,320
popularity but there has to be enough

279
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:17,579
notable sources

280
00:13:23,210 --> 00:13:20,880
printed in notable places or written by

281
00:13:26,449 --> 00:13:23,220
notable people that's a little confusing

282
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,459
but for the moment just go with it it

283
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,560
was a point where Barbara O'Neill

284
00:13:33,889 --> 00:13:30,480
because of the work of the Australian

285
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:33,899
Skeptics and other agencies in Australia

286
00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:37,680
enough information was out there that I

287
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:42,899
was able to ask my secret cabal if they

288
00:13:47,629 --> 00:13:44,940
would be interested in writing a

289
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,639
Wikipedia page for Barbara O'Neill

290
00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:50,639
and two of my editors one in English and

291
00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:53,940
one in Spanish took on the task and they

292
00:13:59,930 --> 00:13:56,060
created a Wikipedia page for this woman

293
00:14:01,970 --> 00:13:59,940
now she outside of Australia she had

294
00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:01,980
very little Fame let me read the

295
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,680
beginning of the Wikipedia page to you

296
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:06,480
Barbara O'Neill is an Australian

297
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:09,360
naturopath and lecturer on health issues

298
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,959
who in 2019 was banned for life by the

299
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,880
New South Wales Healthcare complaints

300
00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:17,279
commission from providing free or paid

301
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:19,980
Health Services the band followed an

302
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:22,620
investigation which found she lacked any

303
00:14:28,009 --> 00:14:25,200
health related qualifications a degree

304
00:14:29,629 --> 00:14:28,019
diploma or membership in an accredited

305
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,639
Health Organization

306
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:31,440
it also found that she provided

307
00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:33,720
dangerous unsupported Health advice to

308
00:14:38,269 --> 00:14:36,360
vulnerable groups this included advising

309
00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:38,279
parents to feed their babies raw goat

310
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:40,860
milk or almond milk blended with dates

311
00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:43,500
or banana instead of formula and

312
00:14:48,530 --> 00:14:45,720
recommending that cancer patients forego

313
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:48,540
chemotherapy in favor of baking soda

314
00:14:53,090 --> 00:14:51,120
wraps and dietary changes

315
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:53,100
yeah a real winner you guys are all

316
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:55,680
cringing right now as I am as well

317
00:15:02,269 --> 00:14:58,079
so we created this Wikipedia page in

318
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:02,279
2019 in English and in Spanish and it

319
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:04,880
toodled along with very few views maybe

320
00:15:11,530 --> 00:15:09,120
20 views 30 views a day which is really

321
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:11,540
small

322
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:16,320
back in July of 2022 her Wikipedia page

323
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,199
views started to hit about 500 views a

324
00:15:23,569 --> 00:15:21,420
day for a very short amount of time and

325
00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:23,579
then they went back down into the 50s a

326
00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:27,500
day or so and then about February of

327
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:31,320
2023 we noticed that her Wikipedia page

328
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,480
views were spiking

329
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:36,000
sometimes over a thousand page views a

330
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:38,220
day and we couldn't quite figure out

331
00:15:43,490 --> 00:15:40,740
what was going on we reached out to

332
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,500
Richard Saunders who told me that

333
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:45,120
there's been more written about her

334
00:15:51,370 --> 00:15:48,959
lately and she has taken to tick tock

335
00:15:54,769 --> 00:15:51,380
and she's been putting out short videos

336
00:15:57,949 --> 00:15:54,779
which are really bad

337
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:57,959
then we start seeing her spikes go even

338
00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:00,540
higher because what happens is that

339
00:16:05,389 --> 00:16:03,060
people wonder about a person and they

340
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:05,399
say who is this person you know how old

341
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:06,839
are they what are their qualifications

342
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,079
who are they married to what what are

343
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,480
they known for and when you do a search

344
00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:14,760
on the internet oftentimes the first

345
00:16:21,009 --> 00:16:16,860
thing you will find is a Wikipedia page

346
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:21,019
so it's imperative that really strong

347
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:24,959
factual highly cited Wikipedia Pages

348
00:16:28,670 --> 00:16:27,600
exist for people to be able to find this

349
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:28,680
information

350
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:31,199
and thankfully there was one because

351
00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:33,720
then her page views started hitting 5

352
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:37,980
000 page views a day and on and on

353
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:40,880
um last time I checked this morning

354
00:16:45,889 --> 00:16:43,860
uh looks like she's starting to hit 9

355
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:45,899
000 page views a day this is a woman

356
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:48,300
that was hitting 20 and 30 page views a

357
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:50,820
day only a couple years ago but because

358
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:54,060
of tick tock and the attention she's

359
00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:55,560
getting there

360
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:59,100
her views have just skyrocketed now one

361
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,959
of the things we noticed

362
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:02,880
recently

363
00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:07,439
is a doctor on Tick Tock has taken to

364
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,640
making short videos that are

365
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:14,040
focusing on different aspects of the

366
00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:16,740
medical health industry and also

367
00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:20,220
pseudoscience and this doctor has 1.7

368
00:17:26,750 --> 00:17:23,459
million followers on Tick Tock and we

369
00:17:29,390 --> 00:17:26,760
just noticed that when he's doing his

370
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:29,400
little video what he's doing is he's

371
00:17:35,090 --> 00:17:32,220
putting up the Wikipedia page as his

372
00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:35,100
background and he's reading off the

373
00:17:44,049 --> 00:17:39,000
Wikipedia page the very words that my

374
00:17:48,049 --> 00:17:44,059
gsow Wikipedia team had written back in

375
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:48,059
2019 in a way to inform the public

376
00:17:54,529 --> 00:17:51,840
so we're not sure if the reason her

377
00:17:57,770 --> 00:17:54,539
Wikipedia page stats are starting to hit

378
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:57,780
9 000 page views a day is because of

379
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,960
this doctor and possibly other people on

380
00:18:05,090 --> 00:18:02,820
Tick Tock and YouTube or wherever who

381
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:05,100
are talking about her critically and

382
00:18:09,169 --> 00:18:07,320
people are saying hmm that's interesting

383
00:18:11,450 --> 00:18:09,179
I think I'll check her out and find out

384
00:18:15,409 --> 00:18:11,460
who she is or

385
00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:15,419
if Barbara O'Neill's own Tick Tock World

386
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,080
her accounts and also other

387
00:18:23,570 --> 00:18:20,880
Avenue she may be trying to get her

388
00:18:24,590 --> 00:18:23,580
misinformation out there are fueling

389
00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:24,600
this

390
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:27,780
it's probably a little bit of both she's

391
00:18:33,230 --> 00:18:31,020
got renewed interest in her and this 9

392
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,240
000 page views a day we're not sure if

393
00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:36,240
that's the new normal or if this is

394
00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:37,860
going to be the beginning of the end

395
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:41,100
because right now it's it's just a spike

396
00:18:46,850 --> 00:18:43,799
and we're haven't had enough days to see

397
00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:46,860
if it's gonna trend for a long time

398
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:49,380
but for whatever reason I want you guys

399
00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:52,080
to know how important the skeptic Zone

400
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:54,179
and the Australian Skeptics Community

401
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,380
was

402
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,600
even if they didn't think they would

403
00:19:03,409 --> 00:19:00,240
have a large audience to write and

404
00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:03,419
report on this naturopath because it

405
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:06,059
brought to my attention how important

406
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:10,500
she was and that she might someday

407
00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:12,900
have a following and we wouldn't be

408
00:19:16,669 --> 00:19:14,820
aware of it we wanted to make sure that

409
00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:16,679
people would have some nice place that

410
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:19,380
they'd be able to find some information

411
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,660
we had no idea that she was going to hit

412
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:24,480
this kind of use she's our number one

413
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:27,740
viewed Wikipedia page out of all the

414
00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:31,320
2160 Wikipedia Pages we've written right

415
00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:34,140
now she's trending as number one in

416
00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:35,160
views

417
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,380
since we wrote her Wikipedia page in

418
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,840
English and Spanish combined there's

419
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:41,120
over

420
00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:42,900
500

421
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:45,539
000 Wikipedia hits

422
00:19:51,770 --> 00:19:48,299
and this doctor that we saw on Tick Tock

423
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:51,780
his video that he released in April has

424
00:19:59,630 --> 00:19:55,440
over 500 000 views

425
00:20:01,730 --> 00:19:59,640
so we are creating content for people to

426
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:01,740
find information good quality

427
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:05,039
information and then the media and

428
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:08,160
influencers are taking that information

429
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,820
the very words my team has written and

430
00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:13,620
then they're just pushing it out there

431
00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:15,960
further and they're educating so many

432
00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:17,220
more people

433
00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:19,080
so if this is something that you would

434
00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:22,919
like to do please join us we badly need

435
00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:26,220
editors there is so much misinformation

436
00:20:31,850 --> 00:20:29,160
on Wikipedia there are so many people

437
00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:31,860
that still lack Wikipedia pages that

438
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,140
should have them there are so many

439
00:20:40,190 --> 00:20:36,720
Wikipedia pages that need better

440
00:20:42,169 --> 00:20:40,200
citations and photographs on them it's

441
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:42,179
imperative that we take care of this

442
00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:44,520
problem and I really do need your help

443
00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:47,880
friend me on Facebook send me a private

444
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:50,160
message to Susan gerpick

445
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:52,620
I need your email and your Wikipedia

446
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,340
username I will send you a pre-training

447
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,320
exercise that takes two hours to

448
00:21:02,750 --> 00:21:00,960
complete and if you're finished with

449
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,760
that you'll have a taste of what our

450
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:04,320
training is like and you can make the

451
00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:06,419
decision if you want to join my secret

452
00:21:12,770 --> 00:21:09,660
cabal located on Facebook you train at

453
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:12,780
your own rate it takes anywhere from two

454
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:15,600
to four months to train you will be put

455
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:18,120
in the secret cabal with your peers and

456
00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:19,679
you will meet people from all over the

457
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:22,620
world who are doing the same as you

458
00:21:27,169 --> 00:21:24,660
this is powerful

459
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,179
and I want to thank the Australian

460
00:21:31,789 --> 00:21:29,520
skeptic Community for pointing this

461
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:31,799
woman out to us you guys are a

462
00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:35,039
phenomenal we appreciate you

463
00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:37,260
and I really do need to have more

464
00:21:43,410 --> 00:21:40,500
editors so come join us

465
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:50,230
[Music]

466
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:54,720
it feels like every family has one you

467
00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:56,880
can Summon Aliens with your mind sorry

468
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:58,500
reason why we can't see them is because

469
00:22:03,529 --> 00:22:01,200
we're impure and they're pure they might

470
00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:03,539
be your parents your siblings your

471
00:22:07,310 --> 00:22:05,880
cousins and your friends look she

472
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:07,320
believes that lizard people are walking

473
00:22:11,810 --> 00:22:09,360
on the face of the Earth they might be

474
00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:11,820
your teachers your police officers and

475
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:13,980
your lawyers it's just like if you

476
00:22:18,169 --> 00:22:15,480
disagree with us they're going to be

477
00:22:24,409 --> 00:22:18,179
severe consequences they could even be

478
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:26,870
out to get you personally we watch them

479
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:29,640
storm the capital of the United States I

480
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:31,860
mean if I'd have told you on January 5th

481
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:34,080
that any group of people would try to

482
00:22:39,789 --> 00:22:37,080
overthrow the US government is it no of

483
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:39,799
course not we saw them occupy Ottawa

484
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:42,720
scientific proof that racism doesn't

485
00:22:48,649 --> 00:22:45,780
exist their sources are always trust me

486
00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:48,659
bro but what no one is talking about is

487
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:51,720
how they're destroying relationships I

488
00:22:57,770 --> 00:22:54,000
don't think people realize how damaging

489
00:23:00,409 --> 00:22:57,780
it is to families they are Q Anon and

490
00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:00,419
these are the stories of the people who

491
00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:03,059
love them like if I play into their

492
00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:04,500
fantasies I can make them believe

493
00:23:09,529 --> 00:23:07,740
anything I want look for the Q dropped

494
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:09,539
podcast on your favorite podcast

495
00:23:17,110 --> 00:23:13,520
platform including YouTube or go to

496
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,120
porthosmedia.net slash cue dropped

497
00:23:37,549 --> 00:23:18,960
[Music]

498
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:37,559
hello everyone this is Adrian Hill from

499
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:40,500
Skookum studios in Calgary Canada here

500
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,000
to read the highlights from the

501
00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:44,640
Australian Skeptics newsletter but let's

502
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:47,340
hope my dog doesn't cause a kerfuffle

503
00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:55,669
letter number 175 you can subscribe to

504
00:23:59,330 --> 00:23:57,240
this newsletter and get it delivered to

505
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,340
your inbox every other week complete

506
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:01,919
with links to all the stories just visit

507
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:09,049
but now let's see what Tim Mendham has

508
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:11,460
for us this week

509
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:15,360
hi all says Tim plans for skepticon 2023

510
00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:17,880
in Melbourne December 2nd through 3rd

511
00:24:23,210 --> 00:24:20,340
are coming along International speakers

512
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:23,220
announced are Susan gerbeck and Melanie

513
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:25,340
tressek King two of my favorite people

514
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:28,080
with more details and tickets to be

515
00:24:31,370 --> 00:24:29,520
announced soon

516
00:24:33,529 --> 00:24:31,380
meanwhile above and beyond this

517
00:24:36,049 --> 00:24:33,539
newsletter you can find more in-depth

518
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,059
Stories the weird and the wonderful and

519
00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:39,600
the worrisome on our Facebook page read

520
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:41,400
on Tim

521
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:49,430
garlic really cure covid

522
00:24:54,890 --> 00:24:51,720
an Australian company has been promoting

523
00:24:56,690 --> 00:24:54,900
garlic as a cure for covid-19 this

524
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:56,700
article gives a good overview of the

525
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:58,980
issues especially the Doherty Institute

526
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:01,559
which was involved in research hoping to

527
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,200
clear up some confusion but the

528
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,440
confusion was not helped by an Institute

529
00:25:12,049 --> 00:25:09,600
researcher quoted elsewhere as saying

530
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,059
quote garlic is known to be good for

531
00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:14,400
killing bacteria it's long been used in

532
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:16,460
traditional Chinese medicine end quote

533
00:25:22,970 --> 00:25:19,280
well the problem with that is of course

534
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:22,980
covid and influenza are viruses not

535
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:25,679
bacteria and traditional Chinese

536
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:28,620
medicine is well traditional Chinese

537
00:25:31,330 --> 00:25:29,770
medicine

538
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:31,340
[Music]

539
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:34,919
GP and defamation battle gets pre-trial

540
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,159
lift a Supreme Court Judge has rejected

541
00:25:43,730 --> 00:25:40,559
most claims in a defamation case against

542
00:25:45,769 --> 00:25:43,740
Melbourne GP Dr Adam Smith for YouTube

543
00:25:48,529 --> 00:25:45,779
videos he made challenging the evidence

544
00:25:49,789 --> 00:25:48,539
behind products sold by a us-based

545
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:49,799
naturopath

546
00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:52,020
in a pre-trial judgment following a

547
00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:54,299
March hearing Justice John Dixon

548
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:56,760
considered 96 questions for preliminary

549
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:00,240
determination relating to 10 videos he

550
00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:01,980
rejected a large number of the claims

551
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,220
made by DR Farah arsenia Augustine Bunch

552
00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:07,200
saying that most imputations in the

553
00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:10,020
videos are expressions of opinion

554
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:13,080
Dr Smith has welcomed the rejection but

555
00:26:18,350 --> 00:26:15,960
says his life remains largely on hold

556
00:26:21,529 --> 00:26:18,360
[Music]

557
00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:21,539
India Cuts periodic table and evolution

558
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:25,559
from school textbooks authorities say it

559
00:26:30,289 --> 00:26:27,900
is because some topics are too complex

560
00:26:33,529 --> 00:26:30,299
for students at certain levels and that

561
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:33,539
there are overlaps with other courses it

562
00:26:39,769 --> 00:26:37,200
has a teacher of course some things can

563
00:26:43,610 --> 00:26:39,779
be too complex for students but I don't

564
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:43,620
think that what they're talking about is

565
00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:46,260
but it has been commented that quote

566
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,120
there is a movement away from rational

567
00:26:53,330 --> 00:26:50,400
thinking against Enlightenment and

568
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:53,340
Western ideas end quote in India

569
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:57,960
it's sad that it's affecting education

570
00:27:04,850 --> 00:27:00,539
UFOs number one

571
00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:04,860
NASA talks UFOs ahead of final reports

572
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:07,020
following the announcements by the U.S

573
00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:09,179
pentagon over the last few years that

574
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:10,980
there really were such things as

575
00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:13,500
unidentified aerial phenomena

576
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:17,340
in that they are unidentified and should

577
00:27:22,130 --> 00:27:19,260
not be assumed to represent alien

578
00:27:24,769 --> 00:27:22,140
intelligence NASA held a public meeting

579
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:24,779
earlier this month on the same topic a

580
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:26,700
year after launching its own study into

581
00:27:32,269 --> 00:27:29,760
unexplained sightings they examined

582
00:27:34,430 --> 00:27:32,279
around 800 reports of unidentified

583
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:34,440
flying objects collected over decades

584
00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:37,919
but only a small fraction two percent to

585
00:27:42,769 --> 00:27:41,220
five percent were truly unexplained they

586
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:42,779
said

587
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:44,400
thank you

588
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:47,279
UFOs number two

589
00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:49,679
with those claim clay us

590
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,260
heard UFOs

591
00:27:57,409 --> 00:27:54,779
a long take on the latest claims by

592
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:57,419
David grush who has noted credentials

593
00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:00,659
within government investigation circles

594
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:02,580
his statements that the US government

595
00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:05,640
has aliens and crafts stashed away have

596
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,580
received a lot of coverage

597
00:28:12,769 --> 00:28:10,320
this article is one of the best

598
00:28:16,669 --> 00:28:12,779
summaries it will take a while to read

599
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,679
but it's worth it meanwhile Stephen

600
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:18,960
Greenstreet an investigator we refer to

601
00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:20,880
last newsletter with his investigation

602
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:23,580
of the Skinwalker Ranch has his new take

603
00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:27,000
on issues with crush's claims

604
00:28:32,990 --> 00:28:30,299
and more meanwhile a debate between

605
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:33,000
noted UFO skeptical investigator Mick

606
00:28:36,890 --> 00:28:35,220
West an Australian journalist Ross

607
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:36,900
coldheart

608
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:38,940
couple of others is well worth a look

609
00:28:44,810 --> 00:28:42,480
cool tart a former Walkley Award winner

610
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:44,820
has been a long time promoter of UFOs

611
00:28:53,529 --> 00:28:47,640
and it was his interview with grush that

612
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:56,149
UFOs number three

613
00:29:02,029 --> 00:28:58,320
does the US government want you to

614
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:02,039
believe in UFOs this story moves from

615
00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:04,380
one self-professed UFO whistleblower Bob

616
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,140
Lazar who had fraudulent credentials to

617
00:29:12,350 --> 00:29:09,840
the latest version David grash who does

618
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:12,360
have credentials but does that make him

619
00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:15,600
any more right the author suggests quote

620
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,840
there is clearly now a faction within

621
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:21,360
the National Security complex that wants

622
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:23,820
Americans to think there might be alien

623
00:29:30,409 --> 00:29:25,919
spacecraft to give these stories

624
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:30,419
Credence rather than dismissal end quote

625
00:29:37,690 --> 00:29:32,940
I wonder if the government keeps these

626
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,210
hypnosis science or pseudoscience

627
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:43,679
this is a short article with a bet each

628
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,020
way yes a lot of pseudoscience about

629
00:29:50,930 --> 00:29:48,720
hypnosis but some benefit but not a

630
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:50,940
Panacea still it's an interesting

631
00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:53,520
summary and it is short

632
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:56,100
the white lie at the heart of vaccine

633
00:30:00,590 --> 00:29:57,120
history

634
00:30:03,049 --> 00:30:00,600
no not that vaccines don't work they do

635
00:30:05,389 --> 00:30:03,059
this long article is about the history

636
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,399
of the development of vaccines and how

637
00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:07,200
it might not be as we have normally

638
00:30:12,649 --> 00:30:10,380
heard it quote a milkmaid did play a

639
00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:12,659
role in how vaccines were born but it's

640
00:30:17,810 --> 00:30:15,179
not how you remember it the story that

641
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:17,820
Dr Edward Jenner realized that milkmaids

642
00:30:22,669 --> 00:30:19,740
were immune to smallpox because of their

643
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:22,679
exposure to cowpox was a lie made up by

644
00:30:29,169 --> 00:30:26,100
his biographer to rehabilitate His Image

645
00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:33,409
update skepticon 2023 skepticon

646
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:35,880
International speakers the Victorian

647
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,860
Skeptics have announced two keynote

648
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:40,559
speakers for skepticon 2023 two

649
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:43,260
wonderful people in my opinion long time

650
00:30:48,350 --> 00:30:46,080
skeptical activists wikipedition and

651
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,360
investigator of Greek vampires Susan

652
00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:50,159
gerbeck a favorite with Australian

653
00:30:54,889 --> 00:30:52,860
audiences who will be coming here she

654
00:30:58,130 --> 00:30:54,899
will be joined by Melanie trussic King

655
00:31:00,049 --> 00:30:58,140
creator of thinking is power an online

656
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:00,059
resource that provides accessible

657
00:31:03,889 --> 00:31:02,520
critical thinking content and check out

658
00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:03,899
her website She's got some awesome

659
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:05,220
t-shirts

660
00:31:10,909 --> 00:31:08,640
skepticon 2023 the 39th in the

661
00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:10,919
continuous series of Australian Skeptics

662
00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:13,500
annual national conventions will be held

663
00:31:18,730 --> 00:31:15,480
on December 2nd through 3rd at the brain

664
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:18,740
Center University of Melbourne Parkville

665
00:31:25,930 --> 00:31:23,039
psychon 2023 October 26th through 29th

666
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:25,940
Las Vegas and this one I'm going to

667
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,039
scicon 2023 presented by skeptical

668
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,960
Enquirer magazine and the committee for

669
00:31:35,210 --> 00:31:33,120
skeptical inquiry will be held from

670
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:35,220
October 26th through 29th at the

671
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,220
Flamingo Las Vegas hotel and casino the

672
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,080
amazing speakers will include Richard

673
00:31:46,370 --> 00:31:42,960
Dawkins Penn and Teller Richard Wiseman

674
00:31:49,730 --> 00:31:46,380
George Robb Kenny Biddle Mick West Naomi

675
00:31:54,409 --> 00:31:49,740
oreski's Eugenie Scott and Paul Offutt

676
00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:56,990
the June issue of the skeptic magazine

677
00:32:00,529 --> 00:31:58,440
is now out

678
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:00,539
digital subscribers will already have

679
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,580
received their copies hard copies are

680
00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:04,559
currently at the printer and subscribers

681
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,120
will receive their copies in the mail

682
00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:08,880
soon the issue contains an in-depth look

683
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:11,100
at the legal and financial goings-on of

684
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,620
the anti-vaccination movement it also

685
00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:15,600
has articles on Eastern versus Western

686
00:32:20,510 --> 00:32:18,059
medicine the truth behind the Illuminati

687
00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:20,520
and lie detectors and that's two

688
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,919
separate pieces not that the Illuminati

689
00:32:27,649 --> 00:32:25,440
would ever lie the history of racing

690
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:27,659
driver Peter Brock's Infamous polarizer

691
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:30,600
and much more including a report on the

692
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:33,419
latest claims of the ndis founding

693
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:38,930
items of Interest

694
00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:42,960
new documentary on anti-science satanic

695
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:47,460
Panic the movie died suddenly claimed

696
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:49,260
that coveted vaccines were killing

697
00:32:56,169 --> 00:32:52,559
everyone all built on totally shonky

698
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,179
evidence its spiritual sequence end days

699
00:33:02,570 --> 00:32:58,559
imagines the virus itself as an

700
00:33:05,889 --> 00:33:02,580
artificial bioweapon in the quote God vs

701
00:33:09,789 --> 00:33:05,899
Satan end times narrative end quote

702
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,850
top 15 best movies about demons of all

703
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:16,799
time this list goes back as far as one

704
00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:19,080
of my favorites Rosemary's Baby from

705
00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:22,620
1968 but like a lot of these of all time

706
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:25,380
lists the author has a narrow frame of

707
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:30,120
interests I.E the last 20 years so no

708
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,500
hackson 1922 Knight of the demon 1955

709
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:37,200
scary until you see the demon

710
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:40,559
The Haunting 1963 though this is more

711
00:33:48,649 --> 00:33:43,279
ghosts than demons the devil rides out

712
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:48,659
1968 or a gazillion Hammer films is this

713
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:51,480
paranormal ghost footage real

714
00:33:56,930 --> 00:33:53,700
as you can probably guess

715
00:33:58,669 --> 00:33:56,940
probably not a rapid fire collection of

716
00:34:00,649 --> 00:33:58,679
videos of ghosts and Poltergeist

717
00:34:03,289 --> 00:34:00,659
activity it's only one and a half

718
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,299
minutes so don't blink and some of the

719
00:34:08,930 --> 00:34:06,240
clips are blatant and poorly done hoaxes

720
00:34:10,849 --> 00:34:08,940
and others are more fun we include this

721
00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:10,859
here only because it gives a taste of

722
00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:12,780
the sort of stories we get at skeptic

723
00:34:17,869 --> 00:34:15,240
Central every day and it will save you

724
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,879
lots of time following up on each one as

725
00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:20,159
we do on your behalf

726
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:24,419
thank you silly story of the week

727
00:34:32,169 --> 00:34:27,359
I timed my pregnancies so my four

728
00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:32,179
children have compatible star signs

729
00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:35,460
so much for the spontaneous romantic

730
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:38,040
moments with

731
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,280
psychic inval honigman from Yorkshire

732
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:43,919
has told how she is able to look into

733
00:34:49,070 --> 00:34:46,859
the future using tarot cards and planned

734
00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:49,080
the births of her children to have

735
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:52,080
compatible zodiac signs and when her

736
00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:54,720
first child was due she even arranged to

737
00:35:02,810 --> 00:34:57,540
have the baby induced on a day she would

738
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,820
be a Pisces rather than Aries oh dear it

739
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:04,320
means that three of her four children

740
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,500
are Pisces as well as herself and her

741
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,560
husband hopefully that fourth kid is not

742
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:12,480
doomed to spend the rest of their life

743
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:20,630
well that's all for the newsletter which

744
00:35:24,109 --> 00:35:22,200
means it's time to talk about the

745
00:35:25,650 --> 00:35:24,119
Canadian word of the week which is

746
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:25,660
Parkade

747
00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:27,260
[Music]

748
00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:29,220
p-a-r-k-a-d-e according to

749
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:32,220
dictionary.com it is a uniquely Canadian

750
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:34,260
word that the Etymology dictionary

751
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,619
online had zero results for and

752
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:39,599
Microsoft Word doesn't like it much and

753
00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:42,180
keeps underlining it in red and wanting

754
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:45,599
to change it to parade a Parkade is a

755
00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:48,240
building or other construction designed

756
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:51,180
for the parking of Motor Vehicles or

757
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:53,760
maybe even UFOs when Richard was

758
00:35:58,130 --> 00:35:55,320
visiting here we went out for dinner

759
00:36:00,589 --> 00:35:58,140
downtown and drove into the palace or

760
00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:00,599
Parkade and he thought it was a business

761
00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:03,540
name he did not realize that a Parkade

762
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:06,660
is where you park but chat GPT knows

763
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:10,140
what it is quote I once saw a moose

764
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:13,680
trying to park in a Canadian Parkade and

765
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:17,960
let me tell you it was a mu steak of

766
00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:28,750
sorry about that

767
00:36:35,490 --> 00:36:32,930
I know grown until the next kerfuffle

768
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:35,500
this is Adrian Hill signing off

769
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:48,470
hello

770
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:54,800
[Music]

771
00:37:06,270 --> 00:36:58,320
these are podcast English is on

772
00:37:27,609 --> 00:37:23,130
[Music]

773
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:30,170
now it's time once again to look into

774
00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:33,020
those pages at Trove

775
00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:35,220
atrove.nla.gov.eu the online Resorts

776
00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:36,780
from the Australian government and the

777
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:39,060
National Library of Australia where we

778
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:41,700
find those digital Delights those

779
00:37:46,450 --> 00:37:45,300
digital delectable Delights of

780
00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:46,460
foreign

781
00:37:52,430 --> 00:37:50,579
starting with d for information from the

782
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:52,440
past when it comes to archived

783
00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:54,180
newspapers

784
00:38:02,569 --> 00:37:58,680
delicious delectable Delicatessen

785
00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:02,579
desirable I think you get the idea and I

786
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:04,500
thought this week would go back to an

787
00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:07,320
oldie but a goodie and one that just

788
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,900
does not go away decade after decade

789
00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:12,240
after Century after millennia

790
00:38:17,450 --> 00:38:15,000
water divining now water divining is

791
00:38:20,089 --> 00:38:17,460
what brought James Randy to Australia in

792
00:38:23,089 --> 00:38:20,099
1980 to conduct a series of very famous

793
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:23,099
water divining tests available

794
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:26,640
um on YouTube James Randy in Australia

795
00:38:32,569 --> 00:38:29,760
if you haven't seen that it's a classic

796
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:32,579
and this week I will have the assistance

797
00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:35,220
of reporter Adrian Hill all the way from

798
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:37,859
Skookum studios in Calgary to read one

799
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:40,680
of the ports but will kick off

800
00:38:47,390 --> 00:38:43,320
from the year 19

801
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:47,400
-3 on the 22nd of December in the areas

802
00:38:52,830 --> 00:38:50,579
Express and this was a newspaper from

803
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:52,840
South Australia

804
00:39:05,089 --> 00:39:01,310
and it says from Sydney University

805
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,099
science journal by S Warren Carey the

806
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:07,200
divining rod

807
00:39:13,609 --> 00:39:10,140
the divining Rod has in the minds of

808
00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:13,619
many long been relegated to the realm of

809
00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:17,400
ridicule however widespread use and the

810
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:19,859
firm belief in the powers of the rod in

811
00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:21,599
many districts of New South Wales

812
00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:24,780
warrant the Airing of some Salient facts

813
00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:27,720
of the practice the most popularly used

814
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:30,660
in this country is the forked Rod shaped

815
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:33,780
like the letter Y Willow being the most

816
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:36,420
common wood in use other types include

817
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:39,839
similar Forks made from fencing wire and

818
00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:42,480
simple straight rods or lengths of wire

819
00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:45,900
the elaborate devices once used seem now

820
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,660
to have disappeared

821
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,119
I wonder what they were with the forked

822
00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:53,760
types the arms of the rudder held firmly

823
00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:56,760
in the hands Palms downward the ends

824
00:40:02,030 --> 00:39:58,980
being bent around and play almost close

825
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:02,040
the loop the butt of the fork is canted

826
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:04,740
upwards in vertical or inclined

827
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:08,960
Direction thus armed the diviner marches

828
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,339
ceremoniously over the field the

829
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:13,680
location of water being indicated by a

830
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:16,020
dipping of the rod

831
00:40:20,930 --> 00:40:18,599
the most common use of the rod are the

832
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:20,940
detection of underground water supplies

833
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:24,780
and for the revealing of all bodies and

834
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:28,260
of coal in the American oil fields late

835
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:31,020
last century oil was commonly added to

836
00:40:36,109 --> 00:40:33,900
the list if we trace the ancestry of the

837
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:36,119
divining Rod back a little further we

838
00:40:40,609 --> 00:40:38,280
find that murderers

839
00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:40,619
thieves and other criminals were

840
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:43,140
detected by its agency

841
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:45,960
in fact in France in the 17th century if

842
00:40:50,210 --> 00:40:47,760
two neighboring Farmers quarreled over

843
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:50,220
the position of their boundary the

844
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:52,020
dispute would have been settled without

845
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:55,920
appeal by a diviner to see these

846
00:41:01,730 --> 00:40:58,560
diviners at work it is at first very

847
00:41:04,609 --> 00:41:01,740
convincing I have seen the mark ripped

848
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,619
from the rod as the holder tried to

849
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:06,960
resist its motion and three quarters of

850
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:09,119
an inch of green stick sheared off

851
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:12,900
completely the broken ends leaving deep

852
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:15,359
impressions in the operator's hands

853
00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:19,440
moreover the integrity and undoubted

854
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,780
honesty of many of the diviners coupled

855
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:24,240
with their own firm belief in the powers

856
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,420
of the rod carry conviction

857
00:41:31,550 --> 00:41:30,000
what then is the origin of these

858
00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:31,560
phenomena

859
00:41:37,609 --> 00:41:34,440
early in the story The Motions of the

860
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,619
stick were attributed to satanic

861
00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:40,560
agencies but as knowledge began to

862
00:41:45,230 --> 00:41:42,420
advance other causes were looked for

863
00:41:47,450 --> 00:41:45,240
such as the Affinity of the rod for

864
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:47,460
water later diviners described their

865
00:41:52,609 --> 00:41:50,579
powers to a personal Divine gift and

866
00:41:54,829 --> 00:41:52,619
thus the practice became surrounded by

867
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:54,839
all sorts of religious rights and

868
00:42:01,250 --> 00:41:59,280
ceremonies in 1853 M Chevrolet was

869
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,260
appointed by The Academy of Sciences to

870
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:03,359
examine the use of divining rods and

871
00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:06,240
Kindred phenomena in his report he

872
00:42:11,950 --> 00:42:08,579
ascribes the movement of the rod apart

873
00:42:14,510 --> 00:42:11,960
from deliberate deception to minute

874
00:42:18,349 --> 00:42:14,520
unconscious muscular movements

875
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,359
unconscious decision or expectation of

876
00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:20,880
the operator now just pause and say

877
00:42:27,950 --> 00:42:25,020
that's the conclusion that the Skeptics

878
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:27,960
reached some time ago otherwise known as

879
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,440
the idiomotor action we read on an

880
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:33,839
impression that the rod will dip at a

881
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:37,680
certain point or a wish or even a fear

882
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:40,920
that it may do so are all effective

883
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:42,839
causes of this particular muscular

884
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,020
movement but even Chevron has not

885
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:48,960
completely solved the problem consider

886
00:42:55,310 --> 00:42:52,260
the case of a man with an open mind who

887
00:42:58,190 --> 00:42:55,320
tries the rod to see if it will work for

888
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,200
him he goes near a well with a proved

889
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:00,720
Supply holds the rod in the prescribed

890
00:43:06,290 --> 00:43:03,839
Manner and walks restrainedly towards

891
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:06,300
the water the rod because of the

892
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:08,460
unstable position in which it is held

893
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,440
will oscillate as he walks eventually it

894
00:43:18,770 --> 00:43:16,560
will dip more than usual and knowing

895
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:18,780
that the displacement was caused by his

896
00:43:25,550 --> 00:43:21,599
walking he will try to restore the rod

897
00:43:28,370 --> 00:43:25,560
by twisting the ends to his amazement he

898
00:43:31,849 --> 00:43:28,380
finds that the more he twists the

899
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,859
further the rod bends down moreover if

900
00:43:36,770 --> 00:43:34,079
he is very determined in his efforts he

901
00:43:40,910 --> 00:43:36,780
may see the bark strip off or the rod

902
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:40,920
break in his hands henceforth the man is

903
00:43:45,890 --> 00:43:43,980
an Ardent supporter of divining yet if

904
00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:45,900
he only knew it it was his own

905
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:49,740
resistance but sent the stick down four

906
00:43:55,069 --> 00:43:52,560
if one examines the distribution of

907
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:55,079
forces within the stick it will be seen

908
00:44:00,349 --> 00:43:58,319
that the torsions which might be

909
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:00,359
expected to restore the displacement

910
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:04,260
result owing to the torsional elasticity

911
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:08,280
of the stick in two couples at the butt

912
00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:09,900
of the stick

913
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:11,880
I hope you're following along

914
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:15,119
these are resolved into two equal and

915
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:17,640
opposite forces tending to break the

916
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:20,040
stick at the butt together with a couple

917
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:22,020
which displaces the stick downwards

918
00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:25,440
therein lies the secret of the divining

919
00:44:29,630 --> 00:44:26,460
rod

920
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:29,640
now I think this writer is more or less

921
00:44:34,910 --> 00:44:32,460
on the right path although I'm a little

922
00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:34,920
wordy in the explanation

923
00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:37,740
but how is it that some diviners are so

924
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,440
successful now these merely chants shots

925
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:42,720
which happen to come right

926
00:44:47,450 --> 00:44:45,300
in reply to these questions it must be

927
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:47,460
pointed out that the successes of

928
00:44:54,770 --> 00:44:51,119
diviners are always magnified and their

929
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:54,780
failures forgotten by those who believe

930
00:45:00,170 --> 00:44:58,020
in them but even granting this it must

931
00:45:02,990 --> 00:45:00,180
be considered that diviners do meet with

932
00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:03,000
a measure of success once again this

933
00:45:06,109 --> 00:45:04,440
writer has hit on something that we've

934
00:45:09,770 --> 00:45:06,119
known for a long time

935
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:09,780
basically magnifying the successes and

936
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,960
forgetting the misses or the failures we

937
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:14,000
read on

938
00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,220
in this explained by the fact that a man

939
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:19,980
with a considerable experience in

940
00:45:25,309 --> 00:45:23,280
well-thinking and bore selection learns

941
00:45:28,370 --> 00:45:25,319
to recognize the signs of vegetation

942
00:45:30,170 --> 00:45:28,380
rock structure and topography which in

943
00:45:33,170 --> 00:45:30,180
his region are associated with

944
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:33,180
productive Wells at least subconsciously

945
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:36,119
he recognizes the association of signs

946
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:40,440
in the new locality and it affects his

947
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,680
judgments One Professional water borer

948
00:45:48,430 --> 00:45:45,839
confessed that his divining Rod was

949
00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:48,440
merely a piece of business propaganda

950
00:45:53,809 --> 00:45:51,480
his choice of sight being determined by

951
00:45:56,990 --> 00:45:53,819
his knowledge of productive areas

952
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,000
by far the most convincing however is

953
00:46:01,609 --> 00:45:59,520
the water Seeker who firmly believes

954
00:46:03,890 --> 00:46:01,619
that his success is due to the divining

955
00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:03,900
rod and who has an established

956
00:46:09,410 --> 00:46:07,319
reputation for honesty he of course can

957
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:09,420
have no knowledge of the effect of his

958
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:12,980
subconscious judgment on his divining

959
00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:16,800
and what an insightful piece all the way

960
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:21,480
back there in 1933 and originally from

961
00:46:27,290 --> 00:46:24,900
the Sydney University science journal by

962
00:46:31,069 --> 00:46:27,300
S Warren Carey

963
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:31,079
and now we'll hear from Adrian Hill

964
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:34,800
so this next article is from The nusa

965
00:46:41,950 --> 00:46:38,760
Advocate and karora Advertiser datehead

966
00:46:45,950 --> 00:46:41,960
Wednesday January 18th

967
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:45,960
1933 and the title of the article is

968
00:46:54,109 --> 00:46:50,460
woman water diviner regarded as a witch

969
00:46:58,430 --> 00:46:54,119
and as a note because of the age of this

970
00:47:01,010 --> 00:46:58,440
article 1933 it's using Indian versus

971
00:47:04,010 --> 00:47:01,020
today's term which would be indigenous

972
00:47:06,829 --> 00:47:04,020
or First Nations people

973
00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:06,839
remarkable success has been achieved by

974
00:47:11,210 --> 00:47:09,720
an English woman Miss Evelyn Penrose Who

975
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:11,220
was appointed by the government of

976
00:47:16,670 --> 00:47:13,740
British Columbia last year as official

977
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,680
water diviner throughout the dry belt of

978
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:18,079
the province she has brought

979
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:20,700
incalculable benefits to settlers

980
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:23,220
ranchers and orchardists by her

981
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,020
achievements

982
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:27,359
in one case she found water at a

983
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:30,540
moderate depth that gave a supply of 300

984
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:33,540
000 gallons a day facing a good deal of

985
00:47:38,690 --> 00:47:36,000
ridicule at the outset Miss Penrose now

986
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,700
Smiles grimly as she sees hundreds of

987
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,040
applications reach her from Farmers

988
00:47:45,770 --> 00:47:43,440
pleading for her services

989
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,780
in some interesting observations of her

990
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:47,280
connection with the art of water

991
00:47:53,089 --> 00:47:50,040
divining Miss Penrose says the aptitude

992
00:47:56,750 --> 00:47:53,099
descends from father to daughter or from

993
00:47:58,490 --> 00:47:56,760
mother to son interesting I wonder how

994
00:48:01,250 --> 00:47:58,500
she figured that out

995
00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:01,260
her father and his forebears were water

996
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,619
diviners in Cornwall until recently she

997
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,200
says she used the old-fashioned Hazel or

998
00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:10,079
Willow Fort Rod shaped like the letter Y

999
00:48:16,010 --> 00:48:13,380
as she had seen her father do when she

1000
00:48:18,170 --> 00:48:16,020
is over an underground running stream

1001
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:18,180
still water does not make the rod

1002
00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:20,880
function it will turn in her hands with

1003
00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:23,400
such violence that it blisters them and

1004
00:48:28,130 --> 00:48:25,020
takes the skin off

1005
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,140
one day says Miss Penrose she discovered

1006
00:48:32,270 --> 00:48:30,000
that she could sense the direction of

1007
00:48:35,329 --> 00:48:32,280
water from the air at a considerable

1008
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:35,339
distance up to a mile then by using a

1009
00:48:40,190 --> 00:48:37,980
twisted wire Rod she not only saved her

1010
00:48:42,829 --> 00:48:40,200
hands but could go straight to the

1011
00:48:45,410 --> 00:48:42,839
strongest water source this enabled her

1012
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:45,420
to work faster where hitherto she was

1013
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:48,780
able to do in a day but one Homestead of

1014
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:54,240
160 Acres now she was able to do several

1015
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:57,599
scientific explanation

1016
00:49:03,230 --> 00:48:59,940
Miss Penrose has a scientific

1017
00:49:05,930 --> 00:49:03,240
explanation of water divining it is not

1018
00:49:09,010 --> 00:49:05,940
Supernatural but follows natural law she

1019
00:49:12,109 --> 00:49:09,020
says water oil and minerals give off

1020
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,119
electromagnetic waves and Fields of

1021
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:14,400
force and water diviners are merely

1022
00:49:20,270 --> 00:49:16,920
human radio sets tuned into these

1023
00:49:23,390 --> 00:49:20,280
wavelengths and can pick them up

1024
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,400
this she says destroys the romance and

1025
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:24,960
mystery of her art

1026
00:49:28,730 --> 00:49:27,359
an Indian Farmer in the north hearing

1027
00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:28,740
that Miss Penrose was in the district

1028
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:31,260
asked her if she would locate a supply

1029
00:49:35,930 --> 00:49:33,839
of water on his property where there

1030
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:35,940
were already three small Springs in

1031
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:37,440
dense undergrowth

1032
00:49:42,109 --> 00:49:39,839
she gave him a demonstration that caused

1033
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,119
the Indians to regard her as a witch

1034
00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:44,400
although some distance from the Indian's

1035
00:49:48,829 --> 00:49:47,099
property she spun her wire rod in her

1036
00:49:51,410 --> 00:49:48,839
hands and the point was immediately

1037
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:51,420
drawn to the strongest spring like a

1038
00:49:56,030 --> 00:49:53,880
needle to a magnet when they reached the

1039
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:56,040
property word had passed from mouth to

1040
00:50:00,530 --> 00:49:58,260
mouth among the Indians family and they

1041
00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:00,540
would not go near Miss Penrose but

1042
00:50:04,849 --> 00:50:03,000
peeped at her from behind cabins or in

1043
00:50:07,370 --> 00:50:04,859
the bush

1044
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:07,380
Miss Penrose claims that she can Sense

1045
00:50:13,069 --> 00:50:10,859
Oil 10 miles away her first indication

1046
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,079
that she is approaching oil-bearing land

1047
00:50:16,609 --> 00:50:15,599
is a violent stab through the soles of

1048
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:16,619
her feet

1049
00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:18,540
when she arrived at the strongest Dome

1050
00:50:24,050 --> 00:50:21,240
on the oil field of the Peace River she

1051
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:24,060
collapsed and was unable to open her

1052
00:50:30,410 --> 00:50:26,760
left hand or straighten her left side

1053
00:50:33,470 --> 00:50:30,420
for some minutes she required 10 hours

1054
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:33,480
sleep that night to restore her physical

1055
00:50:39,170 --> 00:50:35,760
faculties

1056
00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:39,180
oh oh I guess that's what she gets for

1057
00:50:44,690 --> 00:50:42,540
coming to Alberta if she stayed here she

1058
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:44,700
must have been in a lot of pain all the

1059
00:50:48,290 --> 00:50:46,079
time

1060
00:50:51,710 --> 00:50:48,300
and now we turn to the pages of the

1061
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:51,720
Australian women's weekly dated the 2nd

1062
00:50:59,569 --> 00:50:56,160
of September 1981 a full year and a bit

1063
00:51:01,250 --> 00:50:59,579
since the famous 1980 water dividing

1064
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:01,260
tests of James Randy and Nick Smith

1065
00:51:07,370 --> 00:51:04,800
which were televised also in 1980 and

1066
00:51:11,150 --> 00:51:07,380
this is a story by Keith Finley

1067
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:11,160
is finding water a divine art you can do

1068
00:51:17,930 --> 00:51:15,599
it I saw you said Alf Collier 42 Water

1069
00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:17,940
diviner and board driller of Sussex

1070
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,460
Inlet New South Wales I gripped the

1071
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:23,040
forked branch in my hands and walked

1072
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:26,520
forward slowly nothing happened when Alf

1073
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:29,400
did it the tree branch slowly swung down

1074
00:51:34,130 --> 00:51:32,099
until it pointed towards a spot where

1075
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,140
elf would be positioning his five

1076
00:51:39,410 --> 00:51:36,000
hundred thousand dollar drilling rig

1077
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:39,420
truck and bore for water I used water

1078
00:51:42,890 --> 00:51:41,760
divining like good fisherman pick a spot

1079
00:51:46,849 --> 00:51:42,900
to cast

1080
00:51:50,290 --> 00:51:46,859
he said I find it in the spots I know it

1081
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:50,300
must be alph Collier's primary

1082
00:51:56,930 --> 00:51:54,000
recognitering equipment is a simple and

1083
00:52:00,049 --> 00:51:56,940
cheap forked Branch from a young tree or

1084
00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:00,059
a meat-long piece of wire this is in

1085
00:52:06,170 --> 00:52:03,240
dramatic contrast to his 12 meter long

1086
00:52:09,170 --> 00:52:06,180
truck with its 13 meter high drilling

1087
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:09,180
tower that can pierce the Earth at 50

1088
00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:12,720
meters an hour Alf swears that there is

1089
00:52:17,809 --> 00:52:15,720
a weight pulling down on his Branch I am

1090
00:52:19,370 --> 00:52:17,819
not a magician I can't get water every

1091
00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:19,380
time I divine

1092
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:24,119
said elf might have about 98 success

1093
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:26,700
back in Sydney there were Chuckles from

1094
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:30,180
John Mills executive secretary of the

1095
00:52:34,849 --> 00:52:32,160
national water wells Association of

1096
00:52:37,549 --> 00:52:34,859
Australia alph's a good driller

1097
00:52:40,430 --> 00:52:37,559
he said but what a divining is only

1098
00:52:43,370 --> 00:52:40,440
useful as a sales Aid it is impossible

1099
00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:43,380
to drill a dry hole on the East Coast of

1100
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:45,540
Australia there is always water at water

1101
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:48,960
table level about 40 meters down so

1102
00:52:53,809 --> 00:52:52,079
water divining seems to work well and

1103
00:52:56,809 --> 00:52:53,819
finally we're looking the same magazine

1104
00:52:58,970 --> 00:52:56,819
but 10 years before so this is the

1105
00:53:01,549 --> 00:52:58,980
Australian women's weekly dated the 17th

1106
00:53:04,370 --> 00:53:01,559
of March 1971.

1107
00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:04,380
water divining said to be just

1108
00:53:08,030 --> 00:53:05,880
intelligent guesswork

1109
00:53:10,370 --> 00:53:08,040
the ancient profession of water divining

1110
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,380
has probably caused more arguments than

1111
00:53:14,750 --> 00:53:12,720
anything else among the people in

1112
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,760
communities where Discovery and

1113
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:16,559
conservation of water is a matter of

1114
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:19,200
vital importance half the world believes

1115
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:21,660
that water diviners have a special Knack

1116
00:53:27,650 --> 00:53:24,720
the other half believes them fools even

1117
00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:27,660
if well-meaning and sincere ones on the

1118
00:53:32,690 --> 00:53:30,599
principle that quote there must be more

1119
00:53:35,870 --> 00:53:32,700
things in heaven and earth

1120
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:35,880
pencil I've always more than half

1121
00:53:41,089 --> 00:53:38,640
believed in water divining I saw a water

1122
00:53:43,490 --> 00:53:41,099
diviner at work in a country area when I

1123
00:53:46,910 --> 00:53:43,500
was in my teens he used a piece of

1124
00:53:49,010 --> 00:53:46,920
fencing wire bent into a half circle he

1125
00:53:51,410 --> 00:53:49,020
vetoed the farmer's number one choice of

1126
00:53:53,870 --> 00:53:51,420
a place for sinking a well because he

1127
00:53:56,990 --> 00:53:53,880
said there was no trace of water there

1128
00:54:00,109 --> 00:53:57,000
he approved the number two and number

1129
00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:00,119
three positions and the wire moved in

1130
00:54:06,349 --> 00:54:03,839
his hands like a live thing as he walked

1131
00:54:10,190 --> 00:54:06,359
back and forward across these areas

1132
00:54:13,849 --> 00:54:10,200
Wells were dug in the number two and

1133
00:54:17,089 --> 00:54:13,859
number three positions and there was

1134
00:54:19,849 --> 00:54:17,099
water there nobody bothered to dig at

1135
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:19,859
the number one spot so whether he was

1136
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:23,280
right about that I'll never know now the

1137
00:54:29,150 --> 00:54:26,460
institute for Industrial Research and

1138
00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:29,160
standards in Dublin has made some tests

1139
00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:31,079
that were reported in the science

1140
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:34,680
journal Nature and have come up with the

1141
00:54:41,089 --> 00:54:37,200
conviction that the jerking of the water

1142
00:54:43,370 --> 00:54:41,099
divining rod in the diviners hands is no

1143
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:43,380
sure a way of finding water than by

1144
00:54:48,109 --> 00:54:46,079
making an intelligent guess and

1145
00:54:50,809 --> 00:54:48,119
apparently I really do believe in water

1146
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,819
divining because immediately I want to

1147
00:54:57,349 --> 00:54:53,760
say so what Whoever thought it was

1148
00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:57,359
anything else ah people who say we have

1149
00:55:02,210 --> 00:54:59,880
an instinct for certain things often

1150
00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:02,220
making very intelligent guesses and

1151
00:55:07,309 --> 00:55:04,380
backing them up with long observation

1152
00:55:09,890 --> 00:55:07,319
and experience I never suppose the

1153
00:55:13,069 --> 00:55:09,900
Instinct was in the rod which turned

1154
00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:13,079
itself down in spite of the diviner's

1155
00:55:18,290 --> 00:55:15,720
effort to keep it steady any more than I

1156
00:55:21,049 --> 00:55:18,300
thought the musicianship was in the

1157
00:55:23,690 --> 00:55:21,059
conductor's Baton in these Dublin tests

1158
00:55:25,790 --> 00:55:23,700
and experienced diviner tried at a

1159
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:25,800
school of military engineering to tell

1160
00:55:31,609 --> 00:55:27,780
whether water was running in a pipe

1161
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:31,619
under a lawn as a stopcock was turned on

1162
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:35,280
and off he was right 25 times out of 50.

1163
00:55:41,809 --> 00:55:38,880
a proportion of wrong to write answers

1164
00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:41,819
that could have been got by intelligent

1165
00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:45,300
guessing well I don't know it's not

1166
00:55:49,010 --> 00:55:47,160
going to stop people arguing and it's

1167
00:55:52,490 --> 00:55:49,020
not going to stop the great corporations

1168
00:55:54,829 --> 00:55:52,500
that use diviners to tell them where the

1169
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:54,839
long buried water piping is on

1170
00:55:59,870 --> 00:55:57,599
reconstruction jobs

1171
00:56:04,849 --> 00:55:59,880
so there we go from the Australian

1172
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:04,859
women's weekly way back in 1971 and it

1173
00:56:14,850 --> 00:56:08,160
might be interesting to see if I can

1174
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:16,730
[Music]

1175
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:19,200
well there you go looking at an oldie

1176
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:21,540
but a goody water dividing and thanks to

1177
00:56:27,290 --> 00:56:25,020
Adrian Hill again this week and some of

1178
00:56:28,430 --> 00:56:27,300
the most fascinating times I've spent in

1179
00:56:30,829 --> 00:56:28,440
the um

1180
00:56:33,950 --> 00:56:30,839
when the pursuit of skeptical interests

1181
00:56:36,829 --> 00:56:33,960
have been on water divining tests

1182
00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:36,839
watching water diviners run up and down

1183
00:56:44,690 --> 00:56:40,740
trying to find their prize and if you

1184
00:56:47,089 --> 00:56:44,700
Google the mighty mitter muster water

1185
00:56:51,069 --> 00:56:47,099
divining test you can see a documentary

1186
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:51,079
I made well over 20 years ago

1187
00:56:57,950 --> 00:56:54,900
and of course as we always say when you

1188
00:57:00,109 --> 00:56:57,960
visit Trove you never know what you

1189
00:57:01,730 --> 00:57:00,119
might find

1190
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:01,740
foreign

1191
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,910
[Applause]

1192
00:57:28,250 --> 00:57:24,720
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1193
00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:28,260
Zone podcast and once again a sad time a

1194
00:57:32,089 --> 00:57:30,420
sad time at the skeptic zone for the

1195
00:57:36,049 --> 00:57:32,099
loss of one of our dear friends Dr

1196
00:57:38,210 --> 00:57:36,059
Siobhan O'Sullivan but I know she would

1197
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:38,220
like us to continue on

1198
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:40,319
thank you once again as ever to those

1199
00:57:45,650 --> 00:57:42,000
people who support the skeptic Zone at

1200
00:57:48,170 --> 00:57:45,660
PayPal or patreon at skepticzone.tv your

1201
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:48,180
contributions mean the show can keep

1202
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:49,500
going

1203
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,140
but for this week this is Richard

1204
00:57:55,340 --> 00:57:54,480
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1205
00:58:02,750 --> 00:57:55,350
Australia

1206
00:58:08,349 --> 00:58:06,069
please visit our website at

1207
00:58:11,450 --> 00:58:08,359
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1208
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:11,460
contacts and to access the back catalog

1209
00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:15,119
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1210
00:58:20,569 --> 00:58:16,980
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1211
00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:20,579
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1212
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:22,920
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1213
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:24,240
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1214
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:26,520
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1215
00:58:33,170 --> 00:58:29,760
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1216
00:58:34,849 --> 00:58:33,180
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1217
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:34,859
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1218
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:36,960
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1219
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:39,359
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1220
00:58:44,510 --> 00:58:40,960
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